047. The Living Room Design Formula: A Stress-Free Way to Decorate with Amy Barrickman

Do you want a formula to follow to design and decorate your living room? You’re in luck! Interior designer Amy Barrickman just published her book, The Living Room Design Formula: Style Your Home Like A Pro, One Room At A Time.

In this episode, Amy shares that designing and decorating your living room isn’t overwhelming when you have specific guidelines - a FORMULA -  to follow!

We discuss rug sizing, mixing woods, what to do when your personal style doesn't match your home's style, and a whole lot more.

When you follow Amy's formula, the process of decorating your living room no longer feels overwhelming or beyond your grasp, and decision fatigue and analysis-paralysis are minimized!

Amy's book is now on Amazon: The Living Room Design Formula: Style Your Home Like a Pro, One Room at a Time

Amy’s gallery wall guide: https://barrickmandesign.com/gallery-wall-tips-tricks-1

Barrickman Design website: https://barrickmandesign.com/

The Perigold website: https://www.perigold.com/

Connect with me:

You can find me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fireflybridgeorganizing
Here's my website: https://fireflybridge.com

Call or text me: 305-563-2292

Email me: zeenat@fireflybridge.com

Transcript

Hey, welcome to Organizing for Beautiful Living, the podcast for working moms and entrepreneur moms that provides sustainable organizing tips for your home, work, and life. I'm Zisi Mann, professional organizer and productivity consultant, and I'm here to share simple ideas that don't take a lot of time so you can love your home, excel at work, and have the time to enjoy both without stress or overwhelm. Ready to get beautifully organized? Let's make it happen.

Do you feel like your living room design is never fully done? Maybe something doesn't feel quite right about the room, but you can't put your finger on exactly what it is? Or you're ready for a full design overhaul? Well, wouldn't you love to have an interior designer with you to ask, hey, is my rug the right size? Or which accent chair is really worth the money? I have that designer for you. Her name is Amy Barrickman, and she just wrote a book, which... literally just hit the Amazon shelves last week, and it's called The Living Room Formula. I was excited to hear about the book because in it, Amy does for living room design what I do for decluttering and organizing. She gives you a step-by-step formula to follow with all kinds of great resources. Whether you're working with a designer to decorate your living room or you want to do it yourself, Amy has great advice and how-tos. I asked her to come on my show, and she said, I'm going to show you how to do it. And I asked her some foundational questions that I think will make decorating your home a less overwhelming ordeal, even if you have zero experience in design. It's a really fun conversation. Amy is like the designer friend you want to call when you're just unsure about anything design-related. She's a wealth of knowledge, and she's so generous with it. Take a listen.

ZEE: Thank you so much, Amy, for being here on the show today.

AMY: Oh, my gosh. It's my pleasure. This is so fun. I'm so excited to talk with you.

ZEE: Oh, thank you so much. Well, first things first, very exciting news. You wrote a book.

AMY: Oh, my gosh. It's been a journey, and I'm so excited to be talking about it. It's like, you know, you work on it for so long, it's all in your head, and now the world gets to share. It's out into the world. So it's really fun.

ZEE: And it hasn't even officially come out yet as of today. 

AMY: As of today, it has not. But it will come out. Now, very soon, they're still coming back. We're going back and forth on the official launch date. But it's coming out. It's called the Living Room Design Formula, and it is designed to do really what you do for people, but in the design sense. So I want to give people kind of a blueprint, a layout of this is how you can put together your own living room the way the professionals do, and follow these steps, and you can get a great outcome. Without a design. Or maybe even still with a designer. This is just going to help you streamline your ideas. It's going to help you put together what you want, and give you all those tools to get there. So that's the Living Room Design Formula. I'll give it a plug now, so that we don't have to think about it again.

03:23 ZEE: All good. All good. Because I think, I'm really excited to read it, because I think that one of the biggest things that keeps people stuck and like not really loving their homes a lot is that they lack that feeling of confidence, right? You read Architectural Digest. But then there's all this jargon, all these terms, and you start to lose a little bit of confidence in what you can do.

03:45 AMY: It's challenging. It's challenging. You know what? It's good to follow guides, but we have to think about what, how do we honor our home? And how do we honor ourselves? It's really, how can we create a space that works for what we're working with? And I think, I want people to know it's not just non-designers, you know, I look at Architectural Digest and think the same thing. We're all in this together, and it's all about creating what works best for you, just as you do with organizing, creating a system that works for your lifestyle. So you have two young kids. I do. I'm not so young anymore. They're 10 and 13.

04:26 ZEE: Aww. Well, one of the biggest things that a lot of the people that I work with struggle with is when they have young kids, a lot of the spaces in their homes really have to cater to kids as well.

04:37 AMY: I don't know about you, I grew up in a home with a formal living room that I stepped in twice. What's the point of that room? That's a wasted room to me. And I thought that when I was a kid, and even still as an adult, I don't want a room that no one can go in. Now, I certainly respect if you want to reserve a room that's more for adult time, I support that. But we have to be thinking about that when we're designing. So we're thinking about who is in the space, and that might include toddlers and juice boxes, so we're planning accordingly. And you might love the white sofa, I love a white sofa, but I almost never use them because they're just simply impractical. So that's something that I like to talk about on social media and also in the book, which is all about tailoring to your needs, knowing who's going to be in there, and setting yourself up for success. Just because you have kids doesn't mean that you have to have gross stuff that you don't like. Right?

05:36 ZEE: The plastic, giant plastic things that I don't want anyone to see in my living room.

05:42 AMY: Right. Let's build around your needs. So just as you do with organizing, I ask my clients in the beginning of a design plan, okay, who's using this space? What time of day are they using it? What types of things do you need to store? One example is I have a client who they love family game night, which is so awesome. Right? Don't we all want that? But board games don't fit in a standard size cabinet usually, not a bookcase. So when we were building, because we were planning to build some storage in that room, we made sure that it would be deep enough for their games, that that whole Scrabble set on the turntable would fit in that cabinet. And what we can do together, organizers and designers, is we can help you tailor your space so that as you get to the organizing piece, it feels effortless. Storing all your board games in one location will be easy because in the design piece, we already covered that and you won't have to run to a different space in your house where you keep all the board games. You'll be able to have it right where you want them.

06:51 ZEE: Storing things where you will use them. Exactly. So tell me a little bit about the layout of the book. What sort of things are you telling us to do in general?

07:02 AMY: So, because a lot of the things that we're talking about, we're talking about the layout of the book. Yeah.

So, for example, I started doing this about 15 years ago. And not long after, I started to realize, you know, I'm kind of following the same steps over and over. They're different for every client I work with, of course. But I'm going through this process. And what if I could capture this process, maybe people could use it on their own. So since the beginning, I've been formulating these ideas. What we do is we start by taking inventory of what you want this space to be, how you'd like to use it, what would kind of be your dreams for this space, and writing down just all the things that are important to you. As you make that list, you might decide something is not as important to you. But it's all about really thinking through. Because it's so easy to jump into a design without doing that. You see a sofa you love. You get it. Next thing you know. That's the style of your room. And we haven't really talked through all of that. So that's the first step is we kind of take inventory. And then in the book, I walk through how to measure and draw your room just the way the professionals do. It sounds overwhelming, but it's really a simple process. Anyone can do it. You use graph paper. You draw where your furniture will go. This is so key because I'm sure you've been here. I've been here. Clients call me. They want me to help them make a room look great. But if the furniture isn't the right size, I can't change the dimensions of the furniture. So the measuring and making sure that it's the right fit for your room is really important. And I provide guidelines. For example, how far it should be from a coffee table, if you have a fireplace, how to find your focal point. We go through all of these details so that you've really covered it. The size of the rug. Yeah. Yes. That is a big one. And you know what? I want everyone to know if you've ever ordered a rug, that's not the right size. It's not your fault. It's the manufacturer's fault. And let me tell you why the manufacturers have been tricking us. Wait, what? Okay. And I love my rug manufacturers out there. No offense. I love you guys, but mass manufactured rugs. They will say, okay, this is an eight by 10. So you click, I want to see only eight by 10. But then sneak. Sneaky. They will put in rugs that are seven foot six by nine foot six. Now that doesn't seem like a big difference, but that's a foot. And if you were already kind of borderline, that makes a big difference in your room. And next thing, you know, you get a rug that kind of feels like a postage stamp, but you thought you were ordering the right thing. So we cover it in the book. We go through the layout, we go through the layout. We talk about what's the right size for your room. Give you some guidelines about where the best place to fit is. And then at the end, it's like, don't forget, double check, draw in that rug size to make sure it is what it, what you think it is, because sometimes it can be tricky.

10:15 ZEE: I'm really enjoying this because you've made design into a system, but it really it's step one, step two, step three, step four. And what better? I think that's what we as moms want. Yeah. Yeah. So take the heavy thinking away from me, the confusion away from me. Tell me step one, step two, step three, step four, what I should be doing. And then what you're telling us is in each of those steps, of course, we're going to insert our own personality, our own home styles, our own preferences, but there are clear steps that we need to follow. That's what a system is.

10:49 AMY: Exactly. And my feeling is no one is, unless you're a professional, you're not designing or decorating a space every day. You might do it a few times in your life. So how would you know those steps? It's nearly impossible to know the steps if you're not a professional. But the idea is how would you know? It's like if you had, if someone was like, go build a deck, you'd be like, wood, nails, but that doesn't mean you could just go build a deck. You would have to follow a step. You would have to follow the process. And it's really the same thing, but because it's so accessible and everyone has a living space, generally, we feel like we should be able to do it. And I want to take the pressure off. I don't think you should feel that way. What you should focus on is what makes you happy, what brings you joy. So by giving you this, I'm going, and I do talk in the book about how to put things together to make sure they flow, but it's about picking what makes your heart go pitter-patter and then giving you the process to make it all come together.

11:55 ZEE: So most people have a living room that they've got furniture in there already. And, you know, we want to use as much of what we have as possible. Absolutely. And I've done this. I bought the sofa and then months later we're like, we all have, how do we, and there is no getting rid of this sofa. It's a giant investment and it's, it's a huge piece. So okay. So now what I've got a piece that I love the, the sofa on its own, but how do I make it work? In my living room?

12:29 AMY: Well, you hit the nail on the head when you said, I love the piece on its own, because there's a section in the book where I say, do you want to use your existing furniture? If you love it, yes, please use it. We're going to build everything else around it. And when you take that as your key element, we're going to take your sofa. When you're going through that measuring process and you're going to plot it in different locations, see how it feels, see if it looks good with a pair of chairs or with a love seat or whatever it may be, we're going to go through that process. But now your room is constructed around the piece that you love. So everything else will fall into place. I don't encourage people to work with furniture that they don't love. A lot of times people are like, well, I have this, it was my mother's or I spent a lot of money on it, but I hate it. If you can, if it's in your budget. If you don't like something you are, don't throw good money after bad. I've done it. I've worked with clients on things and it almost never works out. At the end, we've ended up spending more money on things to now make this thing work. And we're still not getting that room of our dreams. So if you enjoy looking at it, let's build around it and let's create that whole space to make that beautiful room that functions for you.

13:54 ZEE: By the way. What is the, tell us in your own terms, when we're saying we're designing our rooms, we're really saying we're redecorating it because I'm not moving walls. I'm not adding windows. I'm not changing things. Is that right? Am I getting the terminology right?

14:08 AMY: You are. So it's a big, it's a big debate in the design community. What happened was there, we got certifications in some states, not all states to be called an interior designer. And rightfully so, those people who spent all that time wanted to be defined as that. It kind of gave, but then there are also people who are really good with spaces and they're, and they were called decorators. I always say, I don't care what you call me. I hope my work speaks for itself and you know, whatever you think is fine. So to me, it doesn't really make a difference, but there are some people who get offended, but I personally do think of it the way you described, which is when I'm moving walls, which. I do. And in the book we talk about, okay, before you do anything, let's look around. Are any of these walls going to move in the future in the next five years? I want to know because it might change what we do in this space. So when I'm moving walls, I consider that more of a design. And then when we're working on the fabric finishes, furniture, that's more of decorating, but it's all, it's all the same really. Okay.

15:18 ZEE: So tell me if some ideas for when we have little kids and we need to include some split play space in our living rooms, what are some typical go-to ideas you would, you would bring up for us?

15:30 AMY: Well, the first thing is definitely storage. And I know you, this is big for you. Yes.

15:36 ZEE: Yes.

15:36 AMY: Children love having their own space. They love having a place where they can put things. Now this does not mean they're going to magically start putting all their things away, but they like knowing that they have it. One of the stories I share in the book is when my kids were little. We moved when my first daughter was five weeks old and oh my goodness, it was hard to look at a room that, you know, was someone else's space. So I knew right away, I wanted to do a built-in on the wall. But when they came, I said, I don't want standard size cabinets. I want a cabinet big enough to fit this. And I held up like the bouncy chair that she was in.

16:10 ZEE: Oh, hallelujah. Hallelujah. Because those things just do, there's no place to put them. We usually we stick them behind a couch.

16:22 AMY: Exactly. Which I'm not opposed to in certain situations, but in this situation, I wanted to build it. I wanted to build it. I cannot explain the joy that I felt that first night when they left, when the project was finished. Cause it takes some time. And I put that bouncy seat in there. I felt like an adult again. I got back a piece of who I was. Of course I loved being a mom, but any mom out there knows. It's hard, especially when you're a new mom, you're who am I? And then everywhere you look, there are reminders that this is your life now. It gave me this peace and this sense of comfort. And as they got older, because we had these deep, deep cabinets, I had a boy and he had one of those big truck, uh, not truck things, car. It was huge. 

17:16 ZEE: Car ramp thing. 

17:17 AMY: Car. Exactly. Thank you. Roll the car down. Exactly. Gotcha. Gotcha. I should really know this. I know the terms. I don't remember already. I think everyone knows.

17:25 ZEE: The car thing.

17:26 AMY: The car thing. The car thing. That big round Mattel plastic car thing. He had one of those, the big plastic ugly thing and at night I could just put it in this cabinet. So I've talked a lot about cabinets, but cabinets are important and you can create a space that your kids love. And you also love when they go to bed, you can have it with cabinets, or if the sofa is placed in the right way, maybe there's a way we can put it behind the sofa. But the point is give yourself a spot, which I'm sure is big for what you do. Give yourself a spot. Don't, I try to avoid having things just float around the room because if they float around the room, you never feel in control of the space. You never feel like it's yours.

18:14 ZEE: In control of your space. In control. Yes. Yes. Every mom needs that. Yes. No matter what your kids are playing with. And here's the thing, I mean, you recognize this and I recognize this, that at some point that space, that living room is going to be a mess because we live in it. Our kids are playing in it. Absolutely. Of course it's going to get messy. But the confidence that you would give us is, hey, we have a place to put all this away. And the confidence that I would give you is to say, you can do it. You can do this in 10 minutes. You can put it away in 10 minutes after your kids are in bed. Absolutely. But you have to have an idea of where and how to put it and that's what you can help us with. Right.

18:52 AMY: And during the design process, the designer, the organizer, the homeowner, we can all, we can think through all of these things to make it easier for you. Because if it's right there, you'll put it away. But if you have to bring it all the way down to another floor, you probably won't. And things change so quickly. I remember when my kids were young, it feels like you're in this phase forever. And you know, now that I have a 10, 13 year old, I barely remember it. All mothers can appreciate how quickly it goes. You think I'm always going to have to store this Mattel car spiral thing. And then next thing you know, you don't.

19:29 ZEE: And so over the years, what has that cabinet, I'm assuming you're in the same house. What has that cabinet?

19:35 AMY: Well, we actually moved, but it would not have mattered because we still have a similar setup. Aha. Yeah. Yeah. I use it for blankets. Now I have all my blankets neatly in a similar setup, neatly packed away. We also have one section embarrassed to admit, which is all of the devices, the PS five, the, the switch.

20:02 ZEE: That's a huge sore point in so many people's houses because they sit on top. Typically they're ugly. Yes. Right. They just, there's no, there's no beauty there whatsoever. It's just a tangle of cords. And a couple of giant. Exactly. Machines.

20:16 AMY: So I, that's another thing during the design process. I always want to make sure that there is electrical inside a cabinet, because even if you, even if you don't have those devices today, something's coming, I don't know what it is, but you're going to need a cord in a cabinet at some point it's happening. I don't care if you live alone, you're going to need a cord in the cabinet. So I always make sure there's electrical in a cabinet, in a living room and in a drawer, in the kitchen for chargers.

20:44 ZEE: For everyday devices, your phone or whatever, it's nice to have it tucked away. Yeah.

20:49 AMY: Absolutely. It makes such a big difference. You've spent all this time making a beautiful room and then you're looking at cords. It's just such a shame. I don't want that to happen.

20:57 ZEE: I totally agree. So one thing I always wondered about, so let's say your home is a particular style or no style, like a nondescript ranch house that you're moving into and you have a style preference. Maybe it doesn't match a style of your home. Is that a big no-no? If I want a coastal house, but I have a craftsman on the outside, like what do I do? What a good question.

21:18 AMY: I love this question because I get it all the time and I will go back to my two tenets of design are you have to love it. So if you love, if you are in a craftsman and you love coastal, check the box. You love it. And it has to honor your home. Now I say honor very carefully because you don't need to live in a coastal home. You don't need a home to use coastal decor. Absolutely not. That is not a requirement, but we do want to blend these things together. So I can work with a lot of things. Here's an example. I live in an area with a lot of old stone homes. Everything here is old. Very few new construction, big stone, you know, from times when people had help, right? Which we now have to use those little rooms other ways. But the point is a lot of my clients want like a modern design. And I can give them that within reason. So if they're really attracted to, let's say a chrome Sputnik style, like all the things going out, if they're really attracted to that type of fixture, I will find a way to integrate that style in a way that honors the home. So for me, that would mean an aged brass finish on that same fixture, same light fixture that gives them, it honors the home. It's still. It still can be cohesive with an old stone home, but it gives them that scrap that scratches the edge of a little bit of modern. We can absolutely blend styles, but we just do it thoughtfully. We don't just go buy all the modern stuff and try to make it work. We have to do it in a way that makes sense and is cohesive.

23:00 ZEE: And then so in the same way, what if the two adults living in the home don't have an exact same idea for what they would like? Oh my gosh.

23:11 AMY: I was joking with someone the other day, she's a stylist and she said, it's hard because you know, people are, they're having self-confidence and that she felt like a therapist. I was like, oh, I'm a couples therapist. I always tell my clients, I always tell them, oh, I offer couples therapy too, because you know, I, when they're bringing me in, they're usually there together, especially if it's a big renovation. Okay. So I have a couple things to say about this. Okay. So the first thing is, and I do this in the beginning of the book, whoever is the person doing the work. So presumably you, and a lot of times it happens to be the mom, but it depends on the family structure. It could be someone else. I've worked with plenty of dads. Whoever is the person, they are the captain of the ship. Okay. They are the, they are in charge. Now this does not mean that that person can ignore the other person. But they're putting in the work. They're putting in the time. And I don't recommend other people's opinions when designing, because what happens is we get, we get analysis paralysis. Oh, yes. It's so easy to fall into this where we're like, someone's like, oh, well that color is not quite right. And then next thing, you know, you've, you've wasted weeks thinking about some dumb accessory that probably doesn't even... Right.

24:39 ZEE: And you second guess yourself over and over and over and over. Exactly. Exactly. Well, I'm glad I'm not the only one in that boat.

24:46 AMY: Oh, you are, the boat is full. The boat is very full. There are very few people not in the boat, but really. So that's how I start the book is giving you the confidence to say, look, this is your, you're the captain of this ship. Yes. You're going to listen to what the other people who live in the house think. We're not going to ignore them, but at the end of the day, you're in charge. And that's why I wrote the book the way I did. This is called The Living Room Design Formula. It's one room at a time. It's so easy to get overwhelmed. As you know, with organizing, it's so easy and design is no different. I see it all the time. People start decorating every part of their house and then they finish none of them. Yeah.

25:35 ZEE: Because they're happy or they're not happy with any of them.

25:39 AMY: They're not happy. They get to a point where they're like, well, this works. I don't love it someday. And I don't blame them. It is so easy to do. This is what we're all doing. But by doing one room at a time, we're really going to build confidence. We're going to build the confidence that, A, I can do this, B, I have done it. So now I see it put together. Now I have confidence to go do the next room because I've actually finished one room. I can point to it. I can show the other people in my house, see? See that one room? So it's all about building confidence. And a lot of the publishers I talked to did not want me to do one room at a time. They wanted the whole house. And I really pushed back on that. I was overwhelmed. I do this for a living and I was overwhelmed. So I decided, no, we're doing one room at a time. And I found a publisher that was on board with that. And that's how we got here.

26:34 ZEE: I like that idea, too, though, because I feel like over time, so if I look at my home and I think, OK, I'm going to decorate my home over time, I've moved in and now I can take my time to decorate, right? So I'll start with one room. Let's say that's the living room. But over time, also, my style, my preferences are going to change. And while I'm done with this one room and I love this one room, who's to say that if I do my bedroom next in two years, my style hasn't changed by then. I want my bedroom to be something else. So rather than get all overwhelmed on day one, wait to see how things evolve as time goes on, too.

27:12 AMY: You know what? That is such a good point that I hadn't even thought of. When I think of my own home, which I've done one room at a time, you know, I love all the spaces, of course, but, you know, I've I've had some of them longer than others. And those might I might be ready for a refresh, but then I just did my bedroom suite last year. So I'm perfectly happy. I don't even feel like I need to refresh. So you're kind of setting yourself up for success because you don't want to come to a point where you're like, well, now I'm tired of everything in the whole house. At least you're you're just going to refresh one room at a time, one room at a time, too. So that's a good point. Thank you. You just gave me a good point for my whole concept.

27:55 ZEE: Well, good, good, good. And the other portion of that is that your kids are going to grow up. It's something like you were saying. You know, the cabinets. It's going to involve for how you use it, but not just the cabinet, but sometimes it's the furniture itself is going to change over time because now you don't need these particular things. This particular kind of type of chair in your dining room, now you can go for something upholstered because you don't have kids.

28:19 AMY: Absolutely. That's right. It changes. And I also talk about setting yourself up for success just the way you do in organizing. You know, if you love the look of a certain fabric, maybe we can have that fabric. Maybe you can have that fabric coated with a coating that, I'm not going to say a brand name, that can protect the fabric so that you can have it with kids. Or maybe you don't buy the expensive barstools this time around. Maybe you go to a lower end store because you know in five years you're going to come back to the barstools. We're planning accordingly. It's not just about making everything amazing all the time. Of course, it should all flow and look great. And you should have the thing you're excited about. But it's okay to say, all right, right now, this is not going to be my very first choice and that's okay.

29:12 ZEE: And so what's your point of view of, there must be different tiers of, especially we're talking about furniture, tiers of furniture. So if you're looking at a living room, what should I be spending money on? And what should I, at this point I've got young kids, what should I kind of, okay, no, I don't need to spend money on that until later. Right.

29:32 AMY: I'm like, I'm giggling inside because I know I haven't sent you a copy of the book yet, but you just, I literally say, these are the tiers of furniture and I want everyone to shop in tiers. So as a designer, I consider tier one to be that high end, that kind of heirloom furniture that could be reupholstered or refinished over time. And of course that's where designers shop and those are going to be at very high end stores. So it's unrealistic for everyone to have that. But we all can shop those things to figure out what we like. So I recommend that people start by going to one of those stores that has that tier one furniture and they're going to look.

30:18 ZEE: And are those accessible to the public or do we need to take a designer with us?

30:23 AMY: No. Great news. Design has changed so much. So I started, it was after 2008. I The business model for design has changed so much. When I started, there were a lot of older designers that they had these connections with manufacturers and that's how they made their money. But what I've always done is charge by the hour because I didn't want to be selling anything in particular. I just had my hourly thing and that's has changed so much. Now we all have access to everything, the internet, everything. Now some things are more challenging to get to than others. But for furniture. You absolutely can find a furniture store where you can sit in the good stuff. And I name a few of the brands that I personally like. I'll call out my favorite is Bernhardt. You can go on Bernhardt and see where they sell it so that you can find a store to go to and sit in those things. I want everyone to know that tier one furniture is generally going to be more expensive, but not always. So make sure you're pricing things out. For example, if you go to a high-end furniture store, we have a store here called Sheffield, which I think there are a bunch of them. I'm not sure if that works for a lot of people, but okay, well, you, you probably already know what the high-end furniture store in your area is. If you don't use a website like Paragold, Paragold has higher end furniture to figure out which brands kind of appeal to you and then see where they are carried. So if you're looking to buy high-end furniture locally, it is really important to see furniture in person. And not because you're going to buy the high-end furniture necessarily, but because we can get so much information. So if I go into a store like here, we have Sheffield, I can sit in a Bernhardt sofa and I can see, oh, I like the one that has a thick back cushion or, oh, I like the one that has what we call a tight back, which is really no back cushion. Sometimes it's tufted. Sometimes it's straight across. You get to kind of see what you like, see what you like the look of, which arm appeals to you, which leg, and of course get a quote because a lot of times that might be out of the budget, but you might find that your Pottery Barn sofa is almost as expensive and you're going to get a much better product at the tier one. So I would consider Pottery Barn, which is good stuff. I'm not dogging any furniture. But that would be more tier two. It's more of a mass manufacturer thing. They have different fabrics, but not the way if you go to one of these furniture stores, they'll cover it in any fabric you desire.

33:10 ZEE: Basically bespoke versus pure options. Right. Exactly.

33:14 AMY: A tier two is going to have just a number of fabrics that you can pick from and they're usually good choices. But at that tier one, you're going to be able to put anything on. But the point is get all the information of what appeals to you when you're there. Measure. How deep is this seat? That is a big thing. Short people don't want a deep seat usually, but a lot of people want to cuddle up, figure out how you like to sit in your sofa. Do you want to lean back? Do you want to lay down? And use the dimensions, use the information you get to search then at all the tiers. And you might decide to do a tier three, which would be the mass manufactured that you don't even necessarily have color options. It's probably stored in a warehouse. It's like, this is the sofa and it comes in tan and brown or whatever, but you might find that you, that sofa has the same bench seat and you really liked that on the expensive one. And here it is. And of course it's not going to be the same quality, but you can gather the information you need to make an informed decision.

34:21 ZEE: Yes.

34:22 AMY: That's the idea.

34:23 ZEE: Okay. Okay. That is so helpful. That already just right there. Good. That tip is amazing because that helps reduce the analysis paralysis. Like you were saying we get paralyzed by so many choices and we're not sure if we're making the right decision.

34:38 AMY: And I do list a bunch of things to look for, like the names of different types of arms, different types of cushions. This is what you want to look for to figure out what do I like? What makes me happy?

34:51 ZEE: And then here's a question that's a little more specific. So let's say you have living room, dining room combination. This is the typical home in my neighborhood, all built in the sixties, ranch styles, right? And so the living room and dining room combo, there's a space that's sort of set out for the dining rooms at the front of the house, typically with like a bay window or a giant picture window or something and 99% of the time we would put a rectangular table in there. Okay. Is there a reason why we shouldn't look at a round table? I'm kind of partial to round tables and I think a lot of people kind of are, but we're kind of afraid to, Hmm, is this, what am I looking for when I'm deciding to put a round table or not?

35:36 AMY: Okay. This is really good. So round tables are great. They're great for conversation. They're really much more, um, much more useful. Now there is a, there are certain sizes that are somewhat standard for round tables. A 48 is small. That's usually like in a breakfast nook. Then we usually go to a 60. Sometimes they're selling in between like a 54, we use a 60 would kind of be the next and a 60 is a good size table. A 72 is going to be a big round table that you can sit a lot of people around. And I'm bringing this up because you need to think about how many people are sitting there on a regular basis. There's, first of all, there's no reason you can't use a round table in your dining room. There's no reason you do want to look at the space. Some spaces are elongated and of course they call for rectangles or ovals. But if your space is a normal dimension, which I'm sure it is, there's no reason you can't use a round. But I really want you to think about how many people are eating there on a regular basis. If you have a family of five or six, you can have a 60 inch table and you'll all sit there and you will have great conversation. It's great. That is perfect. And that's what I would recommend. But if you like to host a lot of people, a 72 inch, the biggest round, you could probably, you can fit at least eight, if not 10 there, maybe 12, depending on the size of the chair. But it's very challenging to talk across a 72. So what happens is it actually distances your guests a little more. So think about that. And then think about how often does that happen? If you host a lot of dinner parties, it might be enough that you want to stick with a rectangle so that, you know, if you're having 10 people over every other month, I would maybe stick with a rectangle. But if you're eating there with your family, 90 plus percent of the time, and you're just having extra people for a holiday or once or twice a year, get the table that works for the 90 plus percent of the time. Enjoy that beauty of having a round table. And being able to talk across and all be involved. And then we'll set up a really good looking card table at the holidays or when you have people over.

37:58 ZEE: So let's say in a living room, I have some certain finishes. My table is metal, I've got a little bit of wood spattered in there. Now, do I need to repeat those things in a dining room if it's part of the same space? Or how do you match woods? How do you not even match woods? How do you combine?

38:22 AMY: It's a really good question. And it is, it is a delicate balance. But there is a rule of thumb here. So if something is appearing in a room that's adjacent to another room, let's say, let just because we're talking about wood, let's say you have a coffee table in your living room that happens to be a darker wood, I want that darker wood to show up somewhere in the dining room, but not necessarily the way you think. In fact, I don't want a dark dining room table, or dark dining room chairs, because I don't want it to feel like it's all just one catalog. I want it to feel like you and things that are pretty. But we will find another way to get that dark wood in there. So maybe it is an accessory, maybe it's the light fixture, maybe it's a tray that sits on the table, or maybe it's a small buffet. I do want those things to marry each other. But they don't need to be. They don't need to be matchy-matchy. And you can blend woods. That's the other thing you were saying. How do we work with woods? Okay. We can blend woods, but just as you would with fabric or paint or your clothing, you're going to have to look at it together and see how it makes you feel. So there are woods that are kind of honey-toned, that have like a yellow underneath. You can then use another lighter color, honey-toned woods. In the next room, you want them to be friends. You want them to feel like they could... They're cousins. But they can be totally different finishes, but they're friendly. Whereas there are woods that have a really strong red influence. And that red doesn't go with an ash gray as well. So just think about it just as you would with anything else you're putting together. And what's really hard about design is you can't always just hold them next to each other, right? We're talking about a big table and a big table. I

40:19 ZEE: It's not easy. And that's my next question for you, because we have access to the internet. We have access to all these things on the internet. But I know that a color on my screen is not the same as a color in real life. It's not. Do most of these places... Would most of these places offer samples? And then what do you do? You bring those home and you check them out and you decide...

40:42 AMY: It's a really good question and it's impossible to say, but this is why I recommend everyone shops tier one. Okay. Because when you shop tier one, you get to see these things in person and you'll get a sense for, okay, a lot of the tables right now have this kind of gray ash look. Now I can't guarantee and you can't guarantee that the one that you order from Wayfair is going to look the way it does on the screen. No one can guarantee that. But you can kind of get a feeling for what's out there and how things look together. In a showroom, you can see, oh, okay. That coffee table works near that dining table and it, again, gives you all this information. So it is... Look, it's still a shot in the dark even for a designer. If you are shopping in a tier one and sometimes in a tier two, they might be able to provide a wood chip sample for you or at the very least, they might be able to give you a cut out of an image or something. It might happen. It's not guaranteed, of course. Yeah. But just gather as much information as you can so that you can take yourself to the point where you have all the info, you feel good, but then you will have to take a leap of faith. And that's when I say, take it. You've done the work. You've done the work. Take the leap of faith. This is where...

42:02 ZEE: Oh, gosh.

42:03 AMY: This is where all our hearts are like, do I press buy button? Do I do it? Do I do it? In the end of so many chapters, I'm like, just do it. Just be confident and do it. Only when you've done the work, right? Like, please don't read just the end of a chapter, but if you've done... You've gone through the process so you can feel good about it. And you know what? Even when you go through the process, there might be minor surprises, but you've ironed out the big stuff. So those little surprises are going to be easy for you to manage.

42:35 ZEE: When you go into someone's house for the first time, do you create a mood board with some samples, fabrics, and then you bring that to them? And do you suggest that we do that for ourselves? Yeah. We do.

42:46 AMY: If we're doing this on our own. Did you hack my computer? No. That is a chapter in the book is all about creating a mood board and how important it is. It's way more important now today than it was even 10 years ago because we have so many options and we really... There are very few ways to see all these things together in one place. So the mood board gives us the ability to do that. That's also how I recommend people kind of... Sort through their ideas. So I tell them, look, there are a lot of great apps you can use, but I really recommend just like a piece of foam core board, scissors, and hot glue or tape because... The fifth grade. Exactly. And it's still what I do. It's still what I do for my clients, even though I have all these glossy, beautiful ways to present it. There's nothing like holding a printout or a piece of fabric or whatever it is right next to a printout of your light fixture. And being like, oh yeah, that does work or like, it's not quite what I'm going for. So that's how we go through the process. And it's... I strongly recommend it for you. It's taking these steps that give you the confidence to click buy. Because you know, okay, I've done the layout. I put it up to the mood board. These things all flow and no, nothing's ever going to be perfect. This is not to say there won't be a hiccup, but for the most part, I've done the work. I know. So yes, buy it. And I do have one thing I want to caution you about. So one of the things I talk about in the book is choosing your star. Every room should have a star. Sometimes it's a wall of wallpaper. Sometimes it's built in cabinetry. Sometimes it's a light fixture or sometimes it's a sofa. It could be a fabric on one pillow. It doesn't matter what it is, but I want you to choose your star and really protect that. Protect that star. It's okay. Okay. It's okay if the other people in your home have an opinion about how deep the sofa is or what the fabric is or how things are laid out, but when it comes to your star, that's the heart of the room and that's the thing that's going to really make you excited about it. Fantastic.

45:00 ZEE: I think basically that's what it comes down to, that we want to reduce decision fatigue for whatever space we're working on. In our living room, it's, you know, am I choosing the right furniture? Am I choosing the right colors? What size and pattern of rugs should I get for dining versus living versus whatever space we have? Those just feel like such overwhelming decisions that we have to make. And I think having the step-by-step, like you're explaining in your book, is good. And the other thing is that having a step-by-step from someone, like you said, you've done this for hundreds of people. You've done this hundreds of times.

45:42 AMY: I should be following your advice.

45:44 ZEE: Right.

45:45 AMY: You shouldn't feel, I don't want anyone to feel like they, I think people just think they need to be an expert on design simply because they own a home. A house is never done, but we can get it to the point where we feel really good about it. Where we feel like, yeah, someone could come take pictures of this tomorrow.

46:02 ZEE: Oh, yes. We can get there. I think that's, I think that's our goal, right? Like to feel confident enough to say, hey, anybody can come in here anytime. Absolutely. I'm proud of my house. I love my house. I'd love to show it off a little bit. I'm happy to have people in here. And I think that's- Yes. And you can do it.

46:20 AMY: Anyone can do it. Really. I know it feels out of reach, but anyone can do it. It does take some time. I ask people in the book, just please do 15 minutes a day and don't be an overachiever like me and be like, I'm going to do an hour today. And then, you know, then you don't look at it again for a week. No, just really just commit. I'm just going to spend 15 minutes a day. I'm just going to look at this one thing today and stuck. Anyone can do it. One of the things that I'll share is I have on my website, I offer a free PDF that people can download. And also you can get it if you go to gallerywalltips.com, gallery wall tips. And if you have one wall in your house, it's kind of blank, which most people do. What I do is I show you how to. Pretty affordably put together a truly artistic looking gallery wall that uses your own photos. So in this PDF, I go through, okay, approximately what size should you be going for? I give the link to the frames that I like. And, but of course you can use other frames, um, recommend how to hang them, which in this gallery wall PDF, I'm recommending a very simple grid, how the distance in between, and then how to choose the photos. Of course. We want to see the people you love, but also let's integrate in maybe a landscape of a vacation you're on or a guitar. If you love your guitar, whatever it may be to make a truly beautiful, artistic look, not just candid, you know, not just people looking at the camera and smiling, maybe one of those, but then also maybe one of your kids running on a beach or whatever it may be. So, um, that's gallerywalltips.com. Anyone can go and download that free PDF. To get them started on having something in their space that feels really beautiful.

48:17 ZEE: Wow. Thank you. Thank you so much. All the tips. All the ideas. This is what we need. Step one.

48:24 AMY: Well, listening to your podcast, I was like, this is, this is my jam. She, she gets it. She gets it. Cause you have a realistic approach, right? Like you realize people live life and it's all about creating systems that help them but creating life. Right. And I love that your podcast is about living a beautiful life because when things are set up the way we want them, we can live a beautiful life because we're not looking around going, Oh, I never took care of that or I didn't put that away. We want to set it up so that you can really enjoy it.

49:01 ZEE: A hundred percent. Yes. I'm glad. I'm glad we think the same. That's really good. We do. For sure. Ah, well, thank you so much for being on the show. I appreciate it. I really appreciate it. And we will be talking again, especially when your book finally comes out and I'll talk about it again on the podcast because I think it's so interesting. Thank you.

49:19 AMY: Well, I would love to chat with you anytime. So fun.

49:22 ZEE: And we'll put all the links to everything that you told us about today in the show notes so everybody can find it there, including a link for how to find you. What is your website?

49:33 AMY: So people can go to LR for living room, LR design formula.com, and that will give them information about the book and it links back to my website.

49:42 ZEE: Excellent. All right. Wow. Thank you Amy Barrickman.

49:45 AMY: Thank you. So much fun. I really appreciate you having me.

49:50 ZEE: If you enjoyed that conversation, then you'll really like Amy's book, the living room design formula. Check out the show notes for this episode. I've added all the links that Amy shared with us there and feel free to share this episode with a friend. Okay. They've probably got the same questions we do and will appreciate Amy's insight. Thanks for being here today. Until next time.